Hi,

'English has both 'verb + particle' verbs, written as two words, such as run over and set up, and 'particle + verb' verbs, written as a single word, such as overrun and upset. The 'verb + particle' ones are generally called phrasal verbs, but there seems no reason why the term shouldn't be extended to cover the 'particle + verb' ones too .'

I would like you to give me some examples that side the part in bold.

http://www.macmillandictionari...3-Feature-PV-Int.htm

>that side the part in bold

"side" ???

support

I've come across a Web page that I think does quite a nice, easy-to-follow job of demonstrating particles vs. prepositions, Izzy. The page clearly shows the difference in usage with some simple examples. Here it is for you to click on:

http://www.eflnet.com/pverbs/particles.php

And if you go up to the "Find" tab at the top and put in "particles and prepositions," you'll see a number of previous postings -- even from you -- on this very issue.

Those are very clear definitions indeed, Richard, and I am satisfied to see they agree with my own ideas:-)

Thanks a lot, Richard.

I am afraid that your posting should have been on my other topic Particle and preposition.

What I wanted to know is just some examples on

'particle + verb'

I know of 'verb + particle' as in 'Put off' but 'particle + verb', I think this is new to me.

BTW, I didn't find the 'Find' tab.

quote:

BTW, I didn't find the 'Find' tab.

Either did I.

quote:

Either did I

Neither did I.

Oops! Sorry. I didn't concentrate.
Thanks for correction.

First, let's deal with technical stuff. The "Find" tab is at the very top of this thread where you first listed your posting, Izzy. Go scroll up to the very top and you'll find a whole row of tabs you can click on.

Now, as for particle + verb, what's to consider? Since many grammarians consider them particles if they change the meaning of the verb, they're particles when fronted.

So, for example, to lift something means "to pick up" or "to elevate" something, whereas to uplift means "to make somebody feel happy."

Another example: You know what to grow means, but to outgrow means "to become too big for the clothes you're wearing" if you're a child who is still growing.

Even a verb like understand falls into this category of particle + verb!

quote:

but there seems no reason why the term shouldn't be extended to cover the 'particle + verb' ones too .'

At present, "phrasal verb" usefully denotes a certain kind of verbal unit that has more than one component.

If we were to extend the definition to include e.g. "upset", "phrasal verb" might well be useful in some other way; but we would then need a new term for the multipart verbs that were previously described as "phrasal".

Also, "phrasal verb" would no longer be an entirely accurate description, since "upset", "understand", etc. don't consist of phrases.

All in all, it might be simpler to devise a new umbrella term for e.g. both "upset" and "set up" (if it doesn't already exist).

Best wishes,

MrP

Great points, Mr. P.

I hope you realize that I wasn't intimating that the combination of particle + verb is a phrasal verb. I don't go along with that as an umbrella term for this combination. That's why I like what you said above.

Thanks a lot to you all

quote:

All in all, it might be simpler to devise a new umbrella term for e.g. both "upset" and "set up" (if it doesn't already exist).

Dear Mr Pedantic,

I can understand why you suggested a new umbrella to contain verbs like 'upset'. But what I don't fathom out is why you would like to add 'set up'. I mean, isn't 'set up' considered as a real phrasal verb?

Izzy, that's why Mr. P. is thinking we should come up with some umbrella term to include both phrasal verbs like set up and new verbs created with particles placed before them, which are not phrasal verbs.

Aha! I see.

Thanks a lot, Richard.

quote:

I wasn't intimating that the combination of particle + verb is a phrasal verb.

Yes, I thought that was the case - but thanks for the confirmation (and for clarifying my earlier comment).

MrP

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