Grammar Q & A Newsgroup

Click on Questions and Answers to see the newest messages. If you want to post a message or comment, you will be prompted to login. (If you are not registered, you can do so from the login box.) Remember to bookmark this page to make it easier to return to it.

    Grammar Exchange    Grammar Exchange  Hop To Forum Categories  The Grammar Exchange  Hop To Forums  Questions and Answers    Using " the "
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
  Login/Join 
Member
Posts: 338
Posted   Edit or Delete MessageReport This Post  
Dear Richard and Rachel

Would you please tell me what is the correct
answer? and why?

- Look at those small desks. Those are where ( the boys - girls ) sit.

I'm Waiting for your kind reply.
Thank you very much.

Sayed
Member
Posts: 15220
Posted   Hide PostEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post  
Hello, Sayed:

What is the question?
Member
Posts: 338
Posted   Hide PostEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post  
Dear Rachel,

The question is :

- Which word to choose between brackets to complete the sentence?

** Should we Say " Those are where THE BOYS sit?"

** OR we should say " Those are where GIRLS sit?"

**** Please tell me why?

Thank you very much.

Sayed
Member
Posts: 15220
Posted   Hide PostEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post  
Probably you would say:

  • Those desks are where [b]the boys / the girls sit.

  • That's where the boys / the girls sit.
    _______

    First, we would not say 'those are where.' We'd say 'those desks.'

    It's more likely that, referring to the desks, we'd say 'that's where' to indicate place.

    Second, 'the' would be used because the speaker is referring to specific boys or specific girls, those in the school.

    You can say 'the boys and the girls,' or 'the boys and girls' if you are referring to both. If you are referring to only one group, say 'the boys' or 'the girls.'
  • Member
    Posts: 338
    Posted   Hide PostEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post  
    Dear Rachel,

    Many thanks for your reply but we have two choices " the boys " and " girls" . We have to
    choose only one of them. Either " the boys " or
    " girls " . I think that " the boys " woulde be the correct choice because we are talking about
    the boys and the girls in class , not in general! Do you agree with me?!

    ** On the other hand , can't we say or use " the
    boys" -only - to refer to the boys and the girls in class? or we should say " the boys and
    the girls?.
    By the way, that's a separate question. It has
    nothing to do with my basic question.
    Thank you very much.

    Sayed
    Member
    Posts: 11654
    Posted   Hide PostEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post  
    Allow me to jump in here.

    I see things somewhat differently. I'm comfortable with saying both That's where the boys sit and That's where girls sit. Here's why:

    That's where the boys sit.
    In this sentence, the speaker is talking about a specific group of boys known both to him-/herself and the listener; i.e., the boys in that specific school.

    That's where girls sit.
    In this sentence, the speaker is talking in general about the place in a room that culturally or traditionally is reserved for girls. The speaker is not talking about one specific group of girls, just girls in general in a broad sense.

    So, as I see it, this item is very poor because both choices are possible.

    As for your other question, my friend, the answer is no, we can't say only the boys if we want to include the girls, too. In English we have to say the boys and (the) girls.
    Member
    Posts: 15220
    Posted   Hide PostEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post  
    Sayed, I wonder if you are thinking about the old-fashioned rule about pronouns: that if you want to refer to both genders, with a singular pronoun, you use he/ him/ his.

    For example, in the olden days, a sentence might be like this, in a class, spoken by a teacher:

  • Will everyone please take his seat? Then we will begin class?

    But, first, we don't do that anymore. He/His/Him refers only to males. If you want to refer to both genders, you have to say something like he or she / him or her / his or her. This results in longer awkward sentences because we don't have one pronoun for the two genders in the singular form. So, as you know, we often -- even in more formal speech -- prefer they/them/their even for singular pronouns like everybody.

    Maybe that's why you thought that 'the boys' would also include the girls. But it doesn't. If a teacher used only 'the boys' in his/her sentence, he/she would be referring only to the boys, as Richard states. The sentence would mean either that there are no girls in the class, or that the girls don't have little desks to sit at.
  •   Powered by Eve Community  
     

        Grammar Exchange    Grammar Exchange  Hop To Forum Categories  The Grammar Exchange  Hop To Forums  Questions and Answers    Using " the "