Hi,
Could you please help me ?
a book says you can use of-phrase if the noun has a determiner/modifier
a)the decision of some people = some people's desicion
b)the hind leg of a horse = a horse's hind leg

but;

same book says you cannot use of-phrase like the one below
c)The girl's car ;but not the car of the girl

Thanks.

the book is the one ''A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language, Longman,'' 5.121,p:327 and 17.39, p1277

This message has been edited. Last edited by: soguksu,

What exactly is your question or confusion, Soguksu?

while a and b are ok, why is c not ?
Thanks.

The basic 'rule' is that something that belongs to a living being has the 's possessive form; inanimate things use 'of.' So, it is more usual to say 'the girl's leg,' ande not 'the leg of the girl.'

However, 'rule' is in quotes because there are many exceptions to this rule. Please see this discussion: http://thegrammarexchange.info...026014972#2026014972

hi,
thanks Rachel for the link;
i've heretoforce parsed both the information in the link you gave and the information in the book, whose name is written above.
the basic rule is that we can use 's' with live being. however, when i read the phrase a and b, and then c , i'm perplexed . since there is no rule neither in a book nor in the comment in your link , i find myself in a predicament...

Thanks.

ps:sorry, it seems like a little bit personal.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: soguksu,

* the car of the girl

In the case of "possession", use -'s instead of of-phrases when personal nouns are involved.

the decision of some people

It is different: it does not indicate "possession".

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Chuncan Feng,

VERY NICE TO SEE YOU BACK, CHUNCAN FENG!

The grammar book says decision of some people = some people's decision.
If "some people's decision" does not mean "possession", whoes decision is it?
It is my decision.
The decision is mine.
It is some other people's decision.
The decision is some other people's.

quote:

the decision of some people

It is different: it does not indicate "possession".

what do you mean?

(1) decision of some people = some people's decision.

Neither version means these people possess/own/have the decision. Instead, they suggest these peoplehave made that decision.

(2) the girl's car

The girl owns the car in question.

I know grammarians usually explain that way.
But please consider this.
* I made the decision.
* So it is my decision.
* In other word, the decision is mine.
What does "the decision is mine" mean?
Can you totally exclude the concept of possession here?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Yun,

hi,

Could you please give me some source about this subject? books or links..
Thanks.

In the link I posted previously, references are included in this paragraph:

"Car battery" is the correct form (unless one is referring to the battery of a particular car). This combination belongs to a different kind of noun-noun combination, some of which are called noun compounds, or compound nouns (as in bar code or lamp post), and others of which are just noun + noun sequences (e.g. pilot project or sushi bar). There is no clear dividing line between these two kinds of combinations, and each combination must be learned individually. The descriptive genitive is treated in Quirk et al., Section 5.122.* A helpful discussion of all types of noun-noun combination can be found in Biber et al., Sections 4.8.2 and 8.3.**

Marilyn Martin
_______
*Quirk et al., A Comprehensive Grannar of the English Language, Longman, 1985
**Biber et al., Longman Grammar pf Spoken and Written English,

Yun, if you stick to your way of interpreting genitive NPs or of-phrases, I'm afraid you will find most of them have possessive meanings. And I'm at my wits' end.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Chuncan Feng,