as good as, if not better than, ...

Hi, Raymond,

As you must know, the rule is that, if a parenthetic construction is removed from a sentence, the rest should continue to be coherent and correct, and that is what happens in all of your sentences.

Only if the comparative is next to the second element being compared is "than" required. In Collins Dictionary we can find this example from The Guardian:

- A founder has to learn to trust others to do their job as well as – if not better than – they can.
The Guardian (2016)

If that is not the case, then "than" can be omitted, as in (d).

Thank you, Gustavo, for confirming what I think. Contrary to our expectations, some natives told me (d) has to have that "than" inserted.

I'd like to hear David's opinion, but my understanding is that the comparative of superiority can stand alone more easily that the comparative of equality. We can say Cats are better more readily than Cats are as good. This would account, in my opinion, for the possibility of doing without "than" in coordinated structures like the ones at issue.

@raymondaliasapollyon posted:,

In the following, are (b) and (d) okay?

a. Cats are as good as, if not better than, other pets.

b. Cats are, if not better than, as good as other pets.

c. Cats are as good as other pets, if not better.

d. Cats are, if not better, as good as other pets.

Hi, Ray and Gustavo—While I like your reasoning, Gustavo, sentences (b) and (d) do not sit well with me. In order of naturalness, from most natural to least natural, I would order the sentences (a), (c), (b), (d).

It could be that (d) is not ungrammatical, but I do not view it as a different way of arranging (c). In (c), the "than"-phrase may be considered to be elided: "Cats are as good as other pets, if not better [than other pets]."

In (d), when "better" is reached, in reading or hearing, there is nothing in relation to which it stands, yet one knows it must stand in relation to something. As a native speaker, I need "than" to herald in that element.

Syntactically, it seems to me that (d) wants to involve Right Node Raising, and needs the "than" in order properly to involve it. In (c), however, Right Node Raising is not needed. "Better" comes at the end, and there is ellipsis.

I vaguely remember the American classic style guide The Elements of Style has a sentence like the following, and the authors insist on adding a "than" after the comparative. Note that "but" is a coordinating conjunction unlike "if":

Cats are not better than but as good as other pets.

Since the book is said to have a prescriptive flavor, I'm wondering if the above sentence is perceived as acceptable without "than."

Hi, Raymond,

@raymondaliasapollyon posted:

Cats are not better than but as good as other pets.

I think a comma is required before "but." This, I think, would be as acceptable as (d), if (d) is:

- Cats are not better, but (are (instead)) as good as other pets.

I think the closing preposition could be elided without raising any ungrammaticality issues if shared with the second adjective:

- Cats are not better, but different than other pets.

@raymondaliasapollyon posted:

I vaguely remember the American classic style guide The Elements of Style has a sentence like the following, and the authors insist on adding a "than" after the comparative. Note that "but" is a coordinating conjunction unlike "if":

Cats are not better than but as good as other pets.

Since the book is said to have a prescriptive flavor, I'm wondering if the above sentence is perceived as acceptable without "than."

I strongly prefer having "than" to not having it in such sentences, and this has nothing to do with prescriptive rules that I have memorized. (I can't recall ever memorizing rules about this.) It has to do with what my ear requires as a native speaker for natural-sounding English. I would also use commas:

• Cats are not better than, but as good as, other pets.

Again, I perceive this as a case of Right Node Raising, deriving from:

• Cats are not better than other pets, but as good as other pets.

Notice that the following would unquestionably be unacceptable:

• *Cats are not better other pets, but as good as other pets.

@Gustavo, Co-Moderator posted:

I think a comma is required before "but." This, I think, would be as acceptable as (d), if (d) is:

- Cats are not better, but (are (instead)) as good as other pets.

That's interesting, Gustavo. It almost works for me, but I'd still add "than," even with the parenthetical additions. But, again, it would make all the difference to reverse the positions. In this case, "but" would have to go. In the following sentence, I think the "than"-phrase/clause is understood (if not elided).

• Cats are as good as other pets, not better.
• Cats are as good as other pets, not better [than they] are]].

@Gustavo, Co-Moderator posted:

I think the closing preposition could be elided without raising any ungrammaticality issues if shared with the second adjective:

- Cats are not better, but different than other pets.

I agree with that in principle. I personally do not like "different than," though I believe it is used by some British speakers. I prefer "different from":

• Cats are not better than, but different from, other pets.

However, if we used a different adjective, such as "smaller," the "than" could certainly work for both. Perhaps this moves the Right Node Raising up a notch:

• Cats are not better, but simply smaller, than many other pets.

@David, Moderator posted:

I strongly prefer having "than" to not having it in such sentences, and this has nothing to do with prescriptive rules that I have memorized. (I can't recall ever memorizing rules about this.) It has to do with what my ear requires as a native speaker for natural-sounding English.

Now that you mention it, I guess the use of "than" in those sentences also containing "as" after the adjective is perhaps as strongly grammatical and idiomatic as the use of prepositions following different adjectives and sharing the same object, isn't it?:

- Cats are not equal to, but different from, other pets.