Hi,
1. He claimed that he had been badly treated when he was shopping.
Is it possible to say 2 or 3, ie to backshift the verb in the subordinate clause:
2. He claimed that he had been badly treated when he had been shopping.
3. He claimed that when he had been shopping, he was badly treated.
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Hi, Robby zhu,
@Robby zhu posted:1. He claimed that he had been badly treated when he was shopping.
Is it possible to say 2 or 3, ie to backshift the verb in the subordinate clause:
2. He claimed that he had been badly treated when he had been shopping.
3. He claimed that when he had been shopping, he was badly treated.
Backshifting the verb in the subordinate clause as in (2) makes the sentence unnecessarily heavy. Notice that you can say something as simple as: He claimed that he had been mistreated while shopping.
I don't think (3) is correct, because the temporal correlation of actions is mistaken. Instead, I find (4) to be acceptable in colloquial reporting:
4. He claimed that he was badly treated when he was shopping.
Hi, Robby Zhu and Gustavo,
@Gustavo, Co-Moderator posted:Hi, Robby zhu,
Backshifting the verb in the subordinate clause as in (2) makes the sentence unnecessarily heavy. Notice that you can say something as simple as: He claimed that he had been mistreated while shopping.
I agree with Gustavo's answer. 2 is not only heavy, but also sounds odd. Professor Prof. David Crystal describes it as anomalous here:
https://thegrammarexchange.inf...f-subordinate-clause
@Gustavo, Co-Moderator posted:Hi, Robby zhu,
I don't think (3) is correct, because the temporal correlation of actions is mistaken. Instead, I find (4) to be acceptable in colloquial reporting:
4. He claimed that he was badly treated when he was shopping.
4 sounds more natural, but, I think if 3 were originally in the past perfect progressive, it might work. It could mean that he was mistreated at the end of his shopping (just before he was about to leave / at the cashier's desk, for example.)
@ahmed_btm posted:Professor Prof. David Crystal describes it as anomalous here:
That's exactly the thread I was reminded of—one of my all-time favorites on GE. Whenever I think about the problem of backshift in subclauses, I always think of Okaasan's example of Jane swinging with Tarzan and dropping her harmonica. 
Thank you for your remarks and the link, Gustavo, ahmed_btm and David.
@ahmed_btm posted:Hi, Robby Zhu and Gustavo,
I agree with Gustavo's answer. 2 is not only heavy, but also sounds odd. Professor Prof. David Crystal describes it as anomalous here:
https://thegrammarexchange.inf...f-subordinate-clause
Ahmed, you surely can manage to dig up something helpful.
Perhaps because that was a link from a long time ago, some of the text formatting has been removed. All the text is displayed in black on my monitor, and there is no red part as they mentioned. I think David Crystal symply said "agreed"（"anomalous" is from Co-Moderator, Okaasan） Anyway, the conclusion is the same.
After reading it, I came up with a relevant question: will sentence(1) still be correct, If I switch the positions of the subordinate clause and the main clause.
1: He claimed that he had been badly treated when he was shopping
1a: He claimed that, when he was shopping, he had been badly treated.
How does it sound?
@Robby zhu posted:Perhaps because that was a link from a long time ago, some of the text formatting has been removed. All the text is displayed in black on my monitor, and there is no red part as they mentioned.
The Grammar Exchange was on a different platform in those days, a platform from which we transitioned away in 2017. Although we had been assured that none of the formatting would be altered when all the postings made on the old platform were transplanted to the new platform (indeed, I had inquired specifically about colored text), all the coloring was destroyed in the process.
@Robby zhu posted:After reading it, I came up with a relevant question: will sentence(1) still be correct, If I switch the positions of the subordinate clause and the main clause.
1: He claimed that he had been badly treated when he was shopping
1a: He claimed that, when he was shopping, he had been badly treated.
Yes, Robby, sentence (1a) is just as correct as (1). The "when"-clause is still temporally subordinated to the backshifted (relative) tense in the "that"-clause. Interestingly, (1a) lacks the ambiguity of (1). It is possible for (1) to be interpreted as meaning that he claimed something when he was shopping: "When he was shopping, he claimed that he had been badly treated."
@David, Moderator posted:Yes, Robby, sentence (1a) is just as correct as (1). The "when"-clause is still temporally subordinated to the backshifted (relative) tense in the "that"-clause. Interestingly, (1a) lacks the ambiguity of (1). It is possible for (1) to be interpreted as meaning that he claimed something when he was shopping: "When he was shopping, he claimed that he had been badly treated."
Ok, thanks again, I understand.
