light assumption of words

Hi, f6pafd,

I understand "assumption" as "taking for granted," and "light" as "effortless," or perhaps "frivolous." The text suggests that the communication between the characters was rather shallow.

Thanks a lot.   I'd appreciate it very much if you could go the extra mile to paraphrase the sentence for me.

I'd paraphrase it as follows:

- As it was, it did not go beyond effortlessly taking words for granted.

- As it was, it did not go beyond the frivolity of taking words for granted.

Thanks again for your taking the trouble to paraphrase the sentence for me.

Am I right in interpreting it as follows:

As it was, it did not go beyond his daughter's unrestrained use of words. The tone was always moderate.  (Taking her unrestrained use of words for granted, the father did not take offense.)

@f6pafd posted:

Thanks again for your taking the trouble to paraphrase the sentence for me.

Am I right in interpreting it as follows:

As it was, it did not go beyond his daughter's unrestrained use of words. The tone was always moderate.  (Taking her unrestrained use of words for granted, the father did not take offense.)

Hello,

I'd like to ask who the "light assumption of words" is attributed to. Who was assuming the words lightly? The father or the daughter? Or both?

This is not a dictionary definition, but could "assumption" mean something like "using or interpreting"? Could the author be saying the man took or used words at face value when interacting with his daughter?

@raymondaliasapollyon posted:

I'd like to ask who the "light assumption of words" is attributed to. Who was assuming the words lightly? The father or the daughter? Or both?

The article "the" is ambiguous. Since the article, rather than a possessive, is used, I would tend to think that the light assumption of words was mutual.

@raymondaliasapollyon posted:

This is not a dictionary definition, but could "assumption" mean something like "using or interpreting"?

To tell you the truth, that was exactly my first thought—that "assumption" meant "usage" in that context.

@raymondaliasapollyon posted:

Could the author be saying the man took or used words at face value when interacting with his daughter?

Yes, that would be in line with the mutual unspecificity that characterized their communication. It sounds as if they were both noncommittal, which evidenced a superficial relationship on both sides.

Hi, Gustavo.   Thank you very much again for Your two paraphrases.

As it was, it did not go beyond effortlessly taking words for granted.

As it was, it did not go beyond the frivolity of taking words for granted.

Would you please be so kind as to explain them in more detail when put back in the original context?   What does "taking WORDS for granted" actually mean in the context?  Does "words" refer to the conversation between them in general?  "Taking WORDS for granted in this context" is equivalent to each believing the other is telling the truth without making sure.

According to the preceding context, the father had courted the familiarity between his daughter and him. My understanding is: "he had attempted to put himself on an equal footing with his daughter in daily life, without an air of being a father, and as a result, his daughter had no filial respect for him. The daughter talked to the father without restraint in terms of choice of words;  the father took kindly to her way of talking to him as an equal.   As it was, it did not go beyond his daughter’s unrestrained use of words. The TONE was always modest."

Gustavo,  Is my understanding acceptable?   And what do you think?

Yes, that sounds reasonable to me. I'm curious—why are you so interested in getting the exact meaning of that phrase? Are you involved in a literary analysis discussion with somebody?

Hi, Gustavo.   I'm over eighty years of age, a retired teacher of English.  Reading English literature is my kill-time. I have an eccentric habit of not letting go of a single sentence without a thorough understanding of it semantically and grammatically.  Perfunctory reading seems to make a fool of myself.

Thank you for sharing. We had already told you it was a pleasure to have you among us, and even more so now that you've kindly told us about your background. Your habit of deeply analyzing every single sentence is truly praiseworthy and more than welcome here.

You are welcome.  I'm glad to be a member of this forum, making my life more meaningful.

Hi, f6pafd,

@f6pafd posted:

I'm glad to be a member of this forum, making my life more meaningful.

A nice comment by a really nice person.

Hi f6pafd,

Have you considered posting the sentence and the question in a forum dedicated to literature such as https://www.reddit.com/r/AskLiteraryStudies/ ? You might find different views from literature-oriented people.

Or if you have access to this academic database: https://www.jstor.org/stable/26282489 , you may find some interesting information.

@raymondaliasapollyon posted:

Hi f6pafd,

Have you considered posting the sentence and the question in a forum dedicated to literature such as https://www.reddit.com/r/AskLiteraryStudies/ ? You might find different views from literature-oriented people.

Or if you have access to this academic database: https://www.jstor.org/stable/26282489 , you may find some interesting information.

Thanks a lot for the information.

@ahmed_btm posted:

Hi, f6pafd,

A nice comment by a really nice person.

Hi, ahmed_btm.  It is very nice of you to say so!

@f6pafd posted:

The following quote is from Sister Carrie by Theodore Dreiser:

In the past he had always commanded a certain amount of respect, which was a compound of appreciation and awe. The familiarity which in part still existed between himself and his daughter he had courted. As it was, it did not go beyond the light assumption of words. The TONE was always modest. Whatever had been, however, had lacked affection, and now he saw that he was losing track of their doings.

I'd like to know the aptest definition of "assumption" in the above context.

Hello, everybody—For the last couple of days, every time I've visited the forum I've been tempted to say something in this thread, but I couldn't bring myself to do so. I like the interpretation(s) you have been working with thus far, but I'd like to propose an alternative, at least one which may be a figurative overtone.

It seems to me that "assumption" here may mean "The taking upon oneself of a form or character" (The Oxford English Dictionary, Definition II. 5. a.). The O.E.D. includes the following example under that definition: "The assumption of humane shape, had proved a disadvantage unto Sathan" (Browne, 1646).

With that definition in mind, my paraphrase is as follows: "As it was, the familiarity which in part still existed between him and his daughter did not go beyond the superficial veneer of words." In the past, it had gone deeper than this, involving appreciation and awe on the part of his daughter toward him.

Thank you, David, for your conclusive post.

Here we are at last. Our discussion has finally evolved into a climax, your paraphrase: " the superficial veneer of words." which apparently reflects the familiarity between the father and the daughter. The father behaved in such a way as to have obliterated the division between them as a father and daughter, and the daughter treated him, specifically, talking to him, with the easy familiarity of an equal.