Meaning of "when"

You don't seem to know when you are lucky.

I’d take the underlined element to be a subordinate interrogative clause (embedded question) functioning as complement of "know". The meaning is:

"You don't seem to know the answer to the question 'When are you lucky?'"

The preposition “when” means "on which occasions".

@billj posted:

You don't seem to know when you are lucky.

I’d take the underlined element to be a subordinate interrogative clause (embedded question) functioning as complement of "know". The meaning is:

"You don't seem to know the answer to the question 'When are you lucky?'"

The preposition “when” means "on which occasions".

Is it also possible, considering the context, to read that "know" is an intransitive verb？  Could you tell me if my reading is gramatically impossible or doesn't fit the situation?

@Robby zhu posted:

Is it also possible, considering the context, to read that "know" is an intransitive verb？  Could you tell me if my reading is gramatically impossible or doesn't fit the situation?

You don't seem to know when you are lucky.

Yes, "know" is intransitive here. Subordinate interrogative clauses are complements, but not objects.

@Robby zhu posted:

1. You don't seem to know when you are lucky.  ( Context will be shown in the picture below)

I think "know" is used intransitively, with when-clause being adverbial.

Another analysis is that "know" is a transitive verb here, and the when -clause, being a norminal relative clause, functions as its object.
The latter analysis suggests "when" is in the same sense as:
2. Do you remember when we went to Norway? That was a good trip. （LDOCE）
I'm not sure I agree. What do you think？Thank you.

Greetings,

While I find BillJ's analysis plausible, I think there is something to be said for the analysis toward which you are inclined, Robby. Please note that BillJ is not saying the "when"-clause is a "nominal relative clause"; he is saying the "when"-clause is a subordinate interrogative clause, i.e., an embedded question.

I feel that there may have been some miscommunication when you asked whether "know" could alternatively be analyzed as intransitive in "You don't seem to know when you're lucky!" and BillJ then pointed out that "know" is considered intransitive when its complement is an embedded question.

In your first post, quoted above, your intransitive analysis crucially involved treating the "when"-clause as adverbial. If it is adverbial, it is not the complement of "know." It could actually be fronted, as all adverbial "when"-clauses can: "When you're lucky, you don't seem to know!"

I think that that analysis of the "when"-clause and "know" does make a lot of sense in the context. Of course, "know" has an implied object or complement on this analysis, though it is used intransitively. The sentence may be regarded as equivalent to either sentence below.

• When you're lucky, you don't seem to know it!
• When you're lucky, you don't seem to know that you're lucky!

@billj posted:

You don't seem to know when you are lucky.

Yes, "know" is intransitive here. Subordinate interrogative clauses are complements, but not objects.

@David, Moderator posted:

While I find BillJ's analysis plausible, I think there is something to be said for the analysis toward which you are inclined, Robby. Please note that BillJ is not saying the "when"-clause is a "nominal relative clause"; he is saying the "when"-clause is a subordinate interrogative clause, i.e., an embedded question.

I re-read CGEL, Ch. 11 and found there is a difference in terms used.

In traditional grammar, including Quirk, et al, that-clauses (content clause) and subordinate interrogative clauses may function as objects of verbs, thus object clauses. But in CGEL terms, they are simply internal complements. Only when the complement is an NP or equivalent to an NP, such as a nominal relative, can it be called a object, and the verb a transitive verb. I find BillJ is precise and sometimes picky on grammar terms. Thank you both for correcting my misconceptions.