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Hello, everyone,

The following is from Anthony Trollope's Framley Parsonage (Chapter XV).

1. "'No one has or could depute me. I have come to speak my own mind, not that of any other."

If one were to change the order of 'has' and 'could' in the first sentence above, (I hope) one would get the following.

2. No one could or has deputed me.

I was wondering if the following sentences would be grammatically acceptable in light of the above, possible punctuation-errors notwithstanding.

3. They have never given up nor will ever.

4. I have and will always help them.

Thanks.

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@ahmad posted:

Hello, everyone,

The following is from Anthony Trollope's Framley Parsonage (Chapter XV).

1. "'No one has or could depute me. I have come to speak my own mind, not that of any other."

If one were to change the order of 'has' and 'could' in the first sentence above, (I hope) one would get the following.

2. No one could or has deputed me.

I was wondering if the following sentences would be grammatically acceptable in light of the above, possible punctuation-errors notwithstanding.

3. They have never given up nor will ever.

4. I have and will always help them.

Thanks.

Hello, Ahmad—Trollope's fame notwithstanding, I would revise (1) and (2) to "No one has disputed or could dispute me," (3) to "They have never given up nor will they ever," and (4) to "I have always and will always help them."

Last edited by David, Moderator

I can definitely understand ahmad's reasoning in his examples. {Except (3) lacks the other subject}

I would be probably willing to structure sentences the same way.

Especially if (1) is a fragment from an original source, I wouldnt see why we couldn't just swap the auxiliaries.

@Former Member posted:

I can definitely understand ahmad's reasoning in his examples.

If I'm not mistaken, Ahmad is worried that the elided verb forms do not correspond to the verb forms that are overtly present. In the sentence "No one has or could dispute me," "has" would be followed by "disputed" (past participle).

But the verb form that we find after "could" is, of course, the base form. If I were Ahmad, I might wonder whether eliding "disputed" was OK. I do not wish to take a stand on that matter, though I am somewhat inclined to revise the sentence.

I think Ahmed was concerned about whether an auxiliary verb can stand on its own if the main verb (the eluded one) is the same as the one that follows (even though the form of the main verb may be different). In other words, whether we can use two auxiliary verbs with one main verb. More examples:

1. I have and will love you.

1.a. I will and have loved you.

2. I used to and could love you again.

The auxiliary verb closer to the main verb would affect its form.

@ahmad posted:

Hi, David, and Lucas,

I am sorry for replying so late. I sincerely thank you both for the help rendered.

@Former Member posted:

"Better late than never," they say! I'm joking. I didn't help much, anyway.

That's an intriguing use of the verb "render." 👍 (use 2 below)

Is it what you were going for?

Hi, Lucas,

It is true that "provide" or "give" would collocate much better with "help" than "render."

I only ask to be careful not to criticize any members' usage of words or phrases, unless they are directly connected with the topic in question, because this is not what the forum is for. Actually, you also make some mistakes and we don't correct them. We only do it occasionally when they are terribly serious or can cause confusion. If we had to correct every single mistake, we'd spend hours, and this is clearly not our purpose here. Thank you for your understanding.

Hi, Lucas,

I only ask to be careful not to criticize any members' usage of words or phrases, unless they are directly connected with the topic in question, because this is not what the forum is for.

I didn't mean to criticise anyone: just wanted to discuss such use.



Actually, you also make some mistakes and we don't correct them. We only do it occasionally when they are terribly serious or can cause confusion. If we had to correct every single mistake, we'd spend hours, and this is clearly not our purpose here. Thank you for your understanding.

I would never mind anyone correcting my mistakes. Quite the opposite: I would love it. But obviously, as you said, I know that it would take a lot of time, so I don't ask for it.

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