Which one is the same as <those>? <ones> or < the ones>?

Hi, GBLSU,

Remember that according to our Guideline 6 you have to provide at least one example.

Gustavo, I apologize for that.

Here is the sentence  I want to ask about.

From Reasons of One's Own

On the contrary, many of the thoughts that I have ones that I do not endorse, although I am perfectly aware that they are my own.

I don't clearly understand when I should ones, not the ones and is it OK to use <those> or <the ones> instead of <ones> here?

Actually, <those> or <the ones> here seem OK to me.

Could you tell me how to distinguish between <ones> and <the ones>?

@GBLSU posted:

On the contrary, many of the thoughts that I have are ones that I do not endorse, although I am perfectly aware that they are my own.

The sentence you quoted lacks the main verb, which I added above.

"Ones" is correct there because it substitutes for "thoughts," with the zero article. You would need "the ones" if "the thoughts" were required:

- There are different types of ideas: ones (= ideas) that I endorse and others I don't (also: the ones I endorse and the ones I don't). The ones (= the ideas) I endorse are the ones in line with my line of thought.

"Those" is always interchangeable with "the ones." Notice that in my sentence above — though not in the sentence you quoted — "those" can be used because it is possible to classify your ideas between the ones (=those) you endorse and the ones (= those) you don't.

The difference between ones that I endorse and others I don't and the ones I endorse and the ones I don't is that the first classification is open (there may be a third group of ideas the person only endorses (or doesn't endorse) partially, while the second one is a closed classification.

@Gustavo, Co-Moderator posted:

The sentence you quoted lacks the main verb, which I added above.

"Ones" is correct there because it substitutes for "thoughts," with the zero article. You would need "the ones" if "the thoughts" were required:

The difference between ones that I endorse and others I don't and the ones I endorse and the ones I don't is that the first classification is open (there may be a third group of ideas the person only endorses (or doesn't endorse) partially, while the second one is a closed classification.

I really appreciate your help. Now I can feel the difference.

I have another thing I still don't understand.  Could you explain it for me?

Unlike your saying <"thoughts," with the zero article> , the reason I thought <ones> could be replaced by < those> or <the ones> is because of the article , which is <On the contrary, many of the thoughts>.   Then doesn't it matter whether <the> before a noun mentioned before is or not?

@GBLSU posted:

Unlike your saying <"thoughts," with the zero article> , the reason I thought <ones> could be replaced by < those> or <the ones> is because of the article , which is <On the contrary, many of the thoughts>.   Then doesn't it matter whether <the> before a noun mentioned before is or not?

No, in this case it does not matter that the noun "thoughts" was mentioned before, and this is because in the subject complement the noun "thoughts" is used to define or describe the "thoughts" in the subject, but does not actually refer to them. It refers to a type of thoughts:

- These thoughts are thoughts that I do not endorse.

Many similar sentences can be written along the same lines:

- These books are books that you should read.
- These ideas are ideas that will not help you.

@Gustavo, Co-Moderator posted:

- These books are books that you should read.
- These ideas are ideas that will not help you.

Thank you so much. I think I learned something very important that I haven't fully realized: the concept of an open or closed classification.  It is really helpful. I might have made the same mistake if I had tired to write the sentence you gave . So far I have thought I have to use <the> in such sentence because I thought if the relative clause modifies the noun, the noun has to be specific with <the>.  But thanks to your teaching,  I I understand the example sentence you give is an open classification and that the use of <the> here is dependent on the writer's choice or mind and the situation.

Could I ask you to explain the concept a little bit more for my clear understanding using the example you gave below?

These books are books that you should read.

These books are the books that you should read.

@GBLSU posted:

These books are books that you should read.

These books are the books that you should read.

The first sentence means that the mentioned books are some of the books that the person should read — there may be others. The second sentence means that those are the only books that the person is expected to read.

As you seem to have discovered, the presence of a restrictive relative clause does not mean that a definite article needs to be used before the plural noun — the article will be used or omitted depending on the closedness or openness of the class.

With singular nouns, a definite or an indefinite article will be respectively used in each case:

- This is a book that you should read. (There may be others.)
- This is the book that you should read. (The only one)

@Gustavo, Co-Moderator posted:

- This is a book that you should read. (There may be others.)
- This is the book that you should read. (The only one)

Super clear!  Thank you for the additional explanation.

I do really appreciate your time and consideration.